The State of Diversity – Sweden’s ghosts fight back

Arriving as an immigrant to Sweden during the strained reception of more than 160 000 refugees, Steuart Wright finds a thread from Sweden’s past to its current closed and cold embrace of outsiders.

Among well-tended upright tombstones in the heart of Kalmar is a memorial plaque, cast like a stone to the ground, engraved with no more than: Kaffer Kvinnan Sara 1903 (Kaffer Woman Sara 1903). An ambiguous phrase turning on the space between the Arabic pejorative for non-believer and the most contemptuous term given to Black people in South Africa where Sara was “rescued” from slavery and civil strife in 1862. Kaffer Kvinnan Sara, or Svarta Sara (Black Sara), or Sara Magdalena Makatemele, or Sara Mazhar Makatemele, as she has been called, was accepted as a prominent convert feted in Kalmar church and social circles as a novel and interesting character in town. In death she was remembered neither for her character and incredible journey nor her “redemption” by at best what made her inadequate when she arrived and at worst derided as a lowly savage with the k-word – which no one in the land of her birth would utter out loud today.

In ambiguous spaces ghosts of racism and xenophobia dwell, where well preserved social norms greet newcomers who come up short in differentiating simple cultural processes from deep-seated prejudice. Was it a malevolent loner that ascribed the lasting rubric of name and category to Sara Makatemele or were they treading a well-worn path of Swedish bigotry? To be like Sara must be to decipher your inadequacy in the layered literacy of individual and cultural values, faith and skin tone and reconcile it with the exciting affirmation of your exotic otherness. It is without irony in Sweden’s history, not for a long time humbled by excesses of war, imperial conquest or internal pogrom, that the ghost of Svarta Sara has come to share spaces haunted by shapeshifting bigotry.

Can we come to face the prejudice that lurks in the corners of our psyches? It is a cliché in Sweden to declare you are not a racist, or: “I am not a racist, I have a (insert ethnic group here) wife,” or, “we are not racist. If you come to Sweden and embrace Swedish values, it does not matter what colour you are.” The project often falls on cultural workers to unite compassion and humility in publicly addressing how we reconcile with ourselves and others.

In the case of Sara, this task fell on then Kalmar konstmuseum director Joanna Sandell who engaged visiting South African artists in conversation with the church and public in 2017. The discourse injected vitality into the form and character of Sara by her kinfolk juxtaposing the stale memory kept alive in a Swedish church hymn imploring for her whiteness and salvation and as an exotic character in historical theatre about the city. More than a century after her passing as a prominent figure in Kalmar society, it was in a seemingly reluctant collaboration with the Church of Sweden in Kalmar that a memorial sign was installed alongside the stone plaque in a ceremony that poured some life and respect into her memory thanks to this artistic intervention.

Wisps of feisty Sara remain captured in an interview recorded with her Swedish patron, pioneer female educationist and missionary Cecilia Fryxell reproduced in an art book, The Lamb, which documents the project and includes a translation into Sara’s mother tongue by curator Mmabatho Thobejane. It blends earthy notes of African soil, blood, sweat, courage, terror, sorrow, toughness, motherhood, humour and a thin portrayal of piety which is where she meets the effete sensibilities of Kalmar Christian values: society, sisterhood, altruism, shelter, hospitality and patronising superiority.

Complex essences dripping with humanity will be recognised by many outsiders in this era of social upheaval. They bring their entire beings to be met by paper-shuffling institutional order and awkward Swedish embraces of unfamiliar tolerance for the beating hearts, blood, sweat and tears of those who know survival is other than the portrayal of position and title in institutional settings and urbane society.

One significant reflection of the group that felt presented with an enterprise by the institution that was Kalmar konstmuseum was the challenge that the work was to be done by Swedes and not visiting South Africans. Who will take up the challenge? There is much respect for Swedish institutions, functional and relevant in the service of democratic governance. Swedes are obsequious to institutional guidance, expert bureaucrats who formulate the way forward and for them to follow. How does an outsider inform policy perceived to maximise benefit for the maximum number of citizens, a policy which has built into it a bias that does not perceive the humanness and values of a growing set of citizens on its periphery? Foreign students of the International Curating master’s degree at Stockholm University recently found themselves uniting against the “whiteness of the curriculum” through the formation of Ghostbusters – Anti-Racist Working Group that became the focus of their work documented in a book, Ghosts Carry Messages of the Future.

Taking on the institutional armour of anonymity and collective responsibility they write: “We started to encounter ghosts that kept creeping up and messing with the tasks we were trying to accomplish.” One student says of choosing Ghostbusters as a motif: “I know I suggested it with a laugh, but I also did mean it as a legitimate suggestion. I like the touch of humour, because it’s difficult work when done deeply, and who among us doesn’t need a laugh. For me Ghostbusters translates to ‘lol but also the spectre of racism is everywhere’.”

“In the months leading to January 2020, when we would begin our process, we tentatively noted in corners and with hushed tones, that the curriculum was full of dated Western thought. We noted that in meetings we had met very few art practitioners who were black or of colour. We had seen and observed these issues individually but because we were all in an unfamiliar socio-political context, we thought that perhaps we had not seen correctly.

“When the hushed tones and dispersed conversations slowly funnelled into a chorus, we brought these concerns to our educators. Among the responses was the notion that none of the issues we raised had been brought forth before.”

Drawing on the formulation of American novelist Toni Morrison, Ghostbusters explore “how that which appears absent can be a seething presence. To write, think and organise about exclusion and invisibility in relation to our institution is akin to writing ghost stories. In noticing that whiteness, in thought and matter, makes up the landscape of academia and curatorial practice, we also notice that which, in being absented, holds it up: the exclusion of black and brown people and, thus, their contributions. Ghosts, being invisible, are real and produce material effects. Supposedly, ghosts do not belong to the scientific world of observations, measurements and interpretation. They do not belong to the academic institution, but looking back at our experience, we would say otherwise.”

Ghostbusters actively sought out solidarity with students elsewhere and found similar struggles taking place at Konstfack – University of Arts, Crafts and Design and Stockholm School of the Arts (SKH) where Brown Island and SKH Brown Island were formed respectively in response to resistance to their effort to highlight the western dominated and Eurocentric curricula. Ghosts documents these encounters.

Swedes on opposite ends of the political spectrum share a sentimental attachment to the heyday of a social democratic era, a romantic idealism in service of the homogenous whole and steady progress through dedication to the collective. This fertile soil for innovative and empowering institutions and technology with a penchant for uniform solutions has also created the spaces where ghosts of bias reside, there is a disparate community of outsiders whose ideas have taken root here and in outing these ghosts is beginning to show that diversity can be expressed in unity.

Sara Mazhar Makatemele in her own words

Below follows an excerpt from the scripture Spiritual Hymns, published by Kalmar Missionary Association, with an addition – A Speech at the Baptism of a Pagan Girl, from 1865. From an interview in Swedish with Cecilia Fryxell

Since many of our friends have asked to be notified about the life of dear Sara, before how she came to our country, we saw it fitting, that the person, who has spoken so extensively with her, and who has her confidence, shall write a few lines, on that of which Sara has spoken. But, as memory often fails, and there were concerns, as has been notified before, that something should be wrongly understood or written down faultily, we decided to write down this conversation, just as the questions and the answers came about. This little plan, that was guided by the questions, had to be abandoned as the answers gave rise to new questions. Therefore, as we once and as always had read the word of the Lord, and had asked for the truth, followed, to Sara’s great surprise, this small conversation in everyday-Swedish and Kaffir-Swedish, published here unedited.

CF: How God Almighty was great would you not say, you dear Sara, when he took you from the darkness of paganism into his light and truth!

Sara: Yes, Massell!

CF: Do you remember if you thought of God, or if you had a god, when you were still a pagan?

Sara: No, Massell; no God, only Modim – Modim, is no God!

CF: No, that is of course the truth, dear Sara, but where did they in Kaffirland say that Modim could be found?

Sara: Massell, they said, in the weather, look up into the weather … But Sara does not know, Sara does not know more of Modim.

CF: Giveth they something to Modim?

Sara: Givetasomtha? What is that Massell?

CF: Did they give something to Modim?

Sara: Yes, Massell, they would offer ox.

CF: Were the Kaffirladies allowed (the men and women in Sara’s land are called “Kaffirladies” and “Kaffirgentlemen” by her) to be around then?

Sara: No, but Sara was there with her sister once, we carried the spirits.

CF: Did she see something then?

Sara: Nobody sees them doing the sacrifice, all men must do this (she puts her hand over her eyes) and lie on the ground; when they look up, all the oxen are dead.

CF: What do they do after?

Sara: They make a fire, they fry the ox, they eat them up, sing … (sighs heavily) not know more about Modim.

CF: What do the Kaffirmen do?

Sara: They make their clothing items, go to war, go in the forest, go in the desert, shoot animals.

CF: Do they have guns?

Sara: Yes, Massell, those that have, do have, and those that do not have, do not have, but they all have hassagai. (Spears.)

CF: When the Kaffirgentlemen are at home, what do they do then?

Sara: They sit by the road, they lay in the sun, sleep, talk and (tries to whistle, starts to smile) Sara cannot.

CF: What do Kaffirladies do?

Sara: The Kaffirmaids work the soil, but not like white folks; they carry the water and everything, everything!

CF: What do Kaffirfolks eat?

Sara: Eat meat, porridge, milk.

CF: Do Kaffir have spoons, forks?

Sara: Oh, oh! (smiles lovingly) No, Massell, they eat with their hand, both porridge and milk.

CF: How are Kaffirfolks dressed?

Sara: (with certain pleasure) Very beautiful! Kaffirlady in beautiful item of lambskin, skin across the breast, one skin across the back. The whole body is rubbed in fat, Very beautiful. Beads, neck. Beads, arms.

CF: Would you like to be dressed like that now?

Sara: (turns her face away and smiles.) I don’t know Massell. Ik (I) freeze Swedi (Sweden). Better body covered. It is shameful to be naked.

CF: Do you know what tribe you are?

Sara: Yes, Massell. Mapele.

CF: What is your father named?

Sara: Makatemele.

CF: What is your Mother named?

Sara: Fannavo.

CF: Do you have any sisters?

Sara: Yes, a sister in the countryside called Mech, one died in war, one with Khos (rainmaker, raindoctor, a very influential person) – Khos’s wife. Khos has given her many beads. Her name is Thalli.

CF: No one more?

Sara: Yes, Massell, Mazahr that is Sara, Ik Sara herself. Ik had a brother, he was called Khakathan.

CF: Was he kind?

Sara: Yes, Massell, only big like little Paulus, but looks after the lamb … (Therefore about 6 years.)

CF: Are Kaffirfolk good to their children?

Sara: Oh yeah, Massell, but they hit them too. Daddy very angry and mean.

CF: Sara, dear, is it right to say that?

Sara: (holds back) No, it is best to stay silent. You shall honour thy father and thy mother and and so on. (Here Sara repeats the whole fourth commandment.) Daddy, four wives – and they quarrelled and argued such so! (Sighs) – pagans!

CF: What did Sara do at home?

Sara: Look after Daddy’s his brother’s wife’s little child (the uncle’s wife’s little child.)

CF: Did you ever think about death?

Sara: No, Massell. Never that time think death. Sara not think anything.

CF: What were you afraid of?

Sara: Afraid of Modim, afaid of Khos, afraid of Ghost.

CF: What harm did you think they might do to you?

Sara: Don’t know Massell, Sara afraid.

CF: Are the Kaffirgentlemen also afraid?

Sara: Ye, Massell, afraid of Khos and Modim.

CF: What do they think Modim might do to harm them?

Sara: Don’t know, Massell; but Khos kill them. Not himself, but his servants.

CF: When did Khos become a Khos?

Sara: Because Khos father was Khos before. (In other words, by birth.)

CF: What does Khos do?

Sara: Khos makes rain.

CF: Now Sara does not think that Khos has the capacity to make it rain or the sun shine?

Sara: Oh, Massell! No – God Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth, giveth us all things to enjoy.

CF: Tell me, what good has God given you?

Sara: I believe in God the Father Almighty. (She says the complete 1st Article.)

CF: What is the best God has given us, poor sinners?

Sara: God has given us his Son. And so God loved the world. (Also here Sara read the language of the Bible fully.) (John 3:16, editors note.)

CF: What is it that makes a pagan a pagan and a Christian a Christian?

Sara: The pagan doesn’t know Lord Jesus, doesn’t love Lord Jesus. The Christian knows Lord Jesus and loves Lord Jesus. The pagan afraid Modim.

CF: Why is the pagan afraid of Modim?

Sara: Modim evil.

CF: What is the Christian God like?

Sara: God is very good. (And tears are now shining in Sara’s eyes.)

CF: Was God also good when he took away your Kaffirland, when he took you away from your mother and father, your sisters and everyone?

Sara: Yes, Massell. (Now Sara’s tears are streaming down her face.)

CF: How was God good then?

Sara: God took me out of darkness and taught me about my Saviour. (Sara covers her face with her hands. Both the interviewer and Sara remain quiet for some time.)

CF: Do you want to talk about what it was like when God took you from Kaffirland?

Sara: (Stares silently in front of herself.) Ik (I) would like to talk about it, but it is very shameful.

CF: Why is it so, Sara, dear?

Sara: Sara cannot.

CF: Sara, you can say what you remember. Your friends would really like to know what it was like.

Sara: Yes, Massell. My father was away in the countryside with his other wife, it is one day’s there. (A day’s travel.) Then came the Dutch and Kaffir, other Kaffir, not my people, and these Kaffirs making war. Sara was home with mother in the big Kraal (village). (Here she also tells that Kaffir call a kraal by another name that I could not understand.) Many people are at home, so many! Khos all three sisters, little brother; Early morning, the sun has not come out, they shoot, they burn house, all the people are running up, they shout very loudly. Khos runs to the desert and to the forest, all Kaffirgentlemen run after Khos. Kaffirladies not strong enough to run with!

CF: Oh, my dear Sara, what suffering!

Sara: Oh, Massell! Sara dies all day! (Sara had death angst.) Mother, big sister hold my little brother in arm, they run, they run and here (She puts her hand over her heart) beating so hard, don’t eat, don’t drink all day. I crawl underneath a cliff, first another girl crawls inside, then Sara, then my brother, then my Mother and all the others. Oh, Massell, we are shaking so, and all the men come and we are just quiet, but then a girl drops a piece of her clothing outside of the rock or cliff. (Sara has first said that they were laying under a rock, but from the description it was most likely a cliff), and the Dutch look in and they start shooting, they shoot a girl in the hand and one bullet goes into Sara’s side and stays inside the side. (Some of these accounts are difficult to understand because Sara is talking so fast and she cries a lot.) And then come the Kaffirgentlemen and they shout so loudly! Ytva! Ytva! (Come out! Come out!) Then Sara walks out with her mother and the other girls and little brother and when he comes they beat him to death with a big stick! My Mother cries very quietly, otherwise people become so mean. Sara and the other girls come forth and they all cry out, Bamai! Bamai! (Go, Go!) and we go, but my little brother lays (dead) left. (Now Sara cries for quite a long time.)

CF: Oh my dear Sara! What strange path God has taken you on! Where did that path go?

Sara: Ik know, Massell, to Jesus.

CF: What happened then, Sara dear?

Sara: Yes Massell, we just stay, they screamed, Bamai, Bamai! And then we went up into the mountains and down also. Ik was very sick, and the blood is running down the road, and I don’t walk so well anymore, I walk going back and forth and I am cold in my body, and my mother and the others run home through night – Sara cannot walk very readily and walks in an ill way, and a Kaffir puts me on the wagon and washes Sara with cold water.

CF: You must have had a lot of pain from the bullet in your side?

Sara: Yes Massell, Sara has a lot of pain. Drive to the land of the Dutch. They take the bullet out with a knife and a plyer, they put bandaging on and it heals.

CF: How long were you in the land of the Dutch?

Sara: A month.

CF: Were they kind to you?

Sara: (with a small and noticeable smile) Sara would run back to Kaffirland and the Kaffirgentlemen talked about it and Sara is (taken) home and they beat her so! Ai, ai! They tie her arms with chains and they beat her really badly.

CF: What did they beat you with?

Sara: (Looks suprised) With sjambock!

CF: But what is that, Sara, dear?

Sara: It is sjambock, it is very painful.

CF: But what is sjambok?

Sara: Yes Massell, that is sjambock, they hit the black folks with it.

CF: Where do they hit?

Sara: They hit where they want, head, back, chest, they just hit, hit, hit!

CF: Did you get holes in your body?

Sara: No, Massell, but arms became very swollen, my back, my head, my forehead, everything (the beaten limbs got very swollen).

CF: Did you make sounds of suffering?

Sara: I don’t know Massell? Sounds?

CF: Yes I meant, did you scream a lot?

Sara: Yes, I screamed so! Night, longing, whole night cried for Kaffirland.

CF: Who are those that hit Sara?

Sara: It is the men themselves.

CF: Was it someone that saw this?

Sara: Yes Massell, the wife and the children are looking. Master’s Mama (the mother of the master) says, “it is enough now”.

CF: So dear Sara, was there an end to it?

Sara: Yes, Massell, they unbound my hands and master says, Sara mustn’t run away again. Sara says: noo.

CF: Do you have a memory of what you felt in your heart at this time?

Sara: Sara no understand?

CF: Were you sad? Did you cry all day?

Sara: Yes, Massell, very sad all day, not come to Kaffirland. Sara would sometimes rather die …

CF: Did anyone see you crying?

Sara: Only the children. The children would say, Sara howls! (cries, shouts)

CF: Sara, dear, when did you get away from there?

Sara: They said: Sara travels Africa to town. Travel tomorrow, come in the night with the wife and him (the man, the owner!?) and children.

CF: Did you take care of the children or what did you do?

Sara: Sara takes care of the oxen.

CF: What did you do in the city?

Sara: Sara goes to the market place; the Master sells wood first and (says completely quietly) then they sold me.

CF: Who bought you?

Sara: A policeman, but Sara does not know that he was this. The man said, now Sara stays here.

CF: Oh, you poor little Sara!

Sara: Yes, Massell, Sara was very afraid.

CF: How long were you with the policeman?

Sara: One week.

CF: What did you do there?

Sara: I was in the kitchen and look at the pots as they boil.

CF: When did you see the gentlemen couple F (Mr F in Botchesftroom in South Africa (Editor’s note misspelling in article, it should be Potchefsrom, Mr F refers to the Swedish businessman and farmer Forssman that planned a Swedish agricultural colony in South Africa) a Swede coming from Kalmar, that Sara came to Sweden with when the F’s visited their family) for the first time?

Sara: When he comes riding to the Policeman and little Anna says, Sara can hold the horse, F. says, Sara is a rogue, she has run from Kaffirland. Sara says: Noo!

CF: But when did you come to Mr F?

Sara: Little Anna says Sara shall go to F. and his dwelling, and then they say, Sara must go the to kitchen. In the kitchen the wife of F. is peeling potatoes and Mr F. says, Sara shall call her Mrs; Sara says yes.

CF: And then you take care of these people’s children, you clean their rooms, and you look after the pots and these kind of things?

Sara: Yes, Massell.

CF: How long were you there?

Sara: Mrs said four years.

CF: Were you happy to be travelling that long?

Sara: First I was happy, but then when they said it would be three years I said, I rather Africa.

CF: Do you remember something of the journey?

Sara: Of the journey?

CF: Yes.

Sara: Sara travels through the desert, makes fire in the night so that the lions shall not come. Sara Dina (another black girl that also came to Sweden with the Africa farers and returned there after she has here been brought into the holy baptism) and all the Kaffirmen are laying underneath the wagon. Mrs and the children and Mr F. are laying inside the wagon.

CF: Did you have food for the whole journey (from Potchefsrom, the main city of Transvaal is located far inland)?

Sara: No Massell, we stopped in many cities and buy food.

CF: What was the city called where you boarded the ship?

Sara: Lissebeth, Massell. (Port Elisabeth.) Where Ik met the Kaffirgentlemen, my people, Kaffirland. Ik know them, they were educated in school, they were taught English.

CF: How long were you in Port Elisabeth?

Sara: One month. F’s boys went to school.

CF: Where did you meet the Kaffirgentlemen?

Sara: Ik washed clothing. They asked where was I going and did I know how to read? Ik said: Noo, not read; Those Kaffir said, you go were its burning.

CF: Do you think that these men were Christians?

Sara: I don’t know Massell, if they were Christened. But they read, they speak about hell, about people burning. The pagans do not read. The pagans do not know of hell. Sara asks: where do the Kaffirs go when Kaffirs die? They just say, the Kaffirs burn. Those Kaffirgentlemen, they are my people, (those Kaffirmen they were of my people) Sara knows them from Kaffirland.

CF: Did you speak often to them?

Sara: A little now and then when buy bread. Then I stay with them. Mrs says you can rest there (you stay there if you want to) or you can come back to Africa. There are many white maids in Kalmar that can take care of children: Sara does as Sara pleases; but Ik wants to join.

CF: So, then a long, long journey starts! Were you very ill out at seas?

Sara: Yes, Massell, ill, ill.

CF: Did you think you would die?

Sara: Sara does not think anything … Sara never thinks about anything, doesn’t think about the soul, doesn’t think about death.

CF: But Sara dear, when you were so ill, sick and ill, did you not have to call out to some being?

Sara: Yes Massell, Ik called Modim to help me.

CF: So, you thought that Modim could and wanted to help?

Sara: I don’t know Massell. Don’t know anything Modim now.

CF: Sara, do you ever call out to Modim now when you are afraid or at other times?

Sara: Oh, Massell, Noo! Ik call for God, the Saviour.

CF: So tell me the difference between Modim and God our Saviour?

Sara: (confidently) The Saviour is a living God, Modim is a dead god.

Poledišano magareng ga Cecilia le Sara Cecilia Fryxell

Sara in Sepedi – her mother tongue – a translation by Mmabatho Thobejane

Ka mo tlase go latela karolo e kgethilwego etšwa ka gare ga buka e bitšwago ‘Spiritual Hymns’ (difela tsa moya), e ile ya gatišwa ke bagwera ya baromiwa ba Kalmar, ka go latela gotla polelo e ya bolelwa kolobetšong ya ngwana wa ngwanenyana wa moheitene ka ngwaga wa 1865.

Ka baka la gore bantši ka gare ga bakgotsi ba rena ba ile ba botšiša ka bopelo ba Sara, gore o ile a fihla bjang mo nageng ya rena, re nagane gore motho o ile a bolela ka kudu le yena, gomme yo na leng bota ba gagwe, ke yena o swanetše go ngwala mafoko a mmalwa tša dilo Sara o ile a dibolela. Eupša, ka gore kgopolo e na le go lebala, e bile be go na le tshwenyego, ka mokgo re le ra bolela, ya gore gone selo se se ka ngwalwa kapa se ka kwešišwa ka phošo, re nagane gore go ka ba kaone gore re ngwale poledišano e fasi ye ba bolela. Diputšišo tše be re dinagana dile da fetogwa ke dikarabo tša Sara. Dikarabo tša Sara dile da lebiša diputšišo tše dingwe. Bjale be re bala Lentšu la Morena, legono le le tšatši le lengwe le lengwe, e bile re kgopetši nnete, gwa latela ka, se se ile go sa makatša Sara kudu, poledišano se senyenyane se ile go sa direga ka leleme laSweden, le bolelang ke batho ba tswalago Sweden, le leleme le lengwe, lehlakane le leleme laSweden le bolelwa ke bafaladi ba fihlago Sweden, go swana le Sara. Re gatiša poledišano e re sa e beakanya.

CF: Morena yo matla ohle a dira selo se se golo kudu a gontša lefsifsing la moheitene, a go tliša kagare ga seetša sa gagwe le therešo ya gagwe.

Sara: Ee, Massell!

CF: Nako e o le ka gare ga boheitene ne o mo nagana Morena, gobaa gona Morena ka gare ga boheitene?

Sara: Aowa, Massell; be re sena Morena, be re na le modim – modim fela, iseng Morena.

CF: Ee, se ke therešo, Sara yo a rategago, eupša nageng ya gago le remodim o hwetšega kae?

Sara: Massell, ka gare ga boemo bja leratadima, ba re re re ka mo hwetša ka gare ga boemo bja leratadima. Eupša a ke tsebe, a ke sa motseba modim.

CF: Be go na le selo se be lefa modim?

Sara: Ha ke kwešiše, Massell.

CF: Be go na le selo se be lefa modim?

Sara: Ee, Massell be ba mofa dikgomo.

CF: Basadi ba naga ya ga go be ba dumelela gore ba be gona ka nako ya go nea modim dikgomo?

Sara: Aowa, eupša nna le kgaetšedi ya ka ile ra ba gona. Be re rwele moya.

CF: Le le la bona selo ka nako yeo?

Sara: Ga go na motho yo lebelang sehlabelo ge se direga. Go swanetše banna ba dire se se swanago le se (Sara a be a letsogo mo mahlong) gomme ba robale mo fase; Ge ba tsoga gomme ba lebelela, dikgomo kamoka dihwile.

CF: Ba dira eng ge ba feditše?

Sara: Ba gotša mollo gomme ba beše nama ya kgomo gomme ba e ja, ba opele … (Sara a fegelwa kudu) Ga ke sa tseba ka Modim.

CF: Banna bageno ba dira eng?

Sara: Ba roka diaparo, ba ya ntweng, ba ya sethokgoweng, ba ya lehanateng, ba ye go tsoma diphoofolo.

CF: Ba na le dithunya?

Sara: Ee, Massell, Ba ba na le tšona, ba ne tšona gomme ba ba se ne tšona, ba ne le marumo.

CF: E banna ba le ka gae, ba dira’ng?

Sara: Ba dula strateng, ba patlama letšatšing, ba boledišana (Sara a leka go letša molodi, a toma go myemyela) Ga ke go ne.

CF: Basadi bona ba dira’ng?

Sara: basadi ba le ma, eupša eseng go swana le magoa; ba rwala metsi gomme dilo ka moka, ba dira dilo ka moka!

CF: Batho ba geno baja eng?

Sara: Ba ja nama, motepa, lebese.

CF: Le berekesha malepola goba diforoko?

Sara: Aa aa! (A myemyela ka lerato). Aowa, Massell, ba ja ka matsogo, motepa le lebese.

CF: Le apara diaparo tša muhuta ofe?

Sara: (a bolela ka go ikgantšha) Dibotse kudu! Basadi ba gesho ba apara mekgopha ya dinku, tše botse kudu, ba e apara godimo ga matswele le mokokotlo. Re tlotša mmele ka moka ka makura, e botse kudu! Re apara dipheta ka matsogong le molaleng.

CF: O ka rata go apara ka tsela yeo nakong ye?

Sara: (a furalela sefahlego gomme a myemyela.) Ga ke tsebe, Massell. Mo Sweden gwa tonya. Go kaone ge mmele o khupeditšwe. Go se apara diaparo go letša dihlong.

CF: O tseba meloko ya geno?

Sara: Ee, Massell. Mapele.

CF: Leina la tatago ke mang?

Sara: Makatemele.

CF: Leina la mmago ke mang?

Sara: Fannavo

CF: O na le di kgaetšedi?

Sara: Ee. Ke na le kgaetšedi yo dulago naga e bitšwago Mech, le kgaetšedi engwe yo ile wa romelwa ntweng, yomungwe kgaetšedi ke mosadi wa Khos (monešapula, motho wa matla amantši). Khos o ile a mofa diphetha tše dintši. Leina la gage ke Thalli.

CF: Ba Feletši?

Sara: Ee, Massell, Mazahr ke nna Sara. Be ke na le kgaetšedi ya mošemanyana e lego Khakathan.

CF: O be e na le botho?

Sara: Ee, Massell. E be e le kana le Paulus, o monyenyane. Eupša o lebela dinku … (Ka gona, o be e na le mengwanga e tshela)

CF: Batho ba lefaseng la gago ba swara bana gabotse?

Sara: Aa, ee, Massell, eupša ba ba betha. Tata o na le go galefa kudu ebile ga sa kgahliša.

CF: Sara, omunyane, go lokile go bolela ka mokgwa wo?

Sara: (a lesa), Aowa, go kaone go homola. Godiša tatago le mmago, le tše dingwe. (Mo, Sara o boeletša molao wa bone ka go felela). Tata, basadi ba ga ge bane – e bile ba ngangišana ka go se fele! (Sara a fegelwa) – baheitene!

CF: Sara o na dira eng ka gae?

Sara: Ke be ke hlokomela ngwana wa mosadi wa ramogolo.

CF: Ile wa nagana ka lehu?

Sara: Aowa, Massell. Ka nako yeo be ke sa nagane ka lehu. Be ke sa nagane selo.

CF: Be go na le selo se o se boifago ka nako yeo?

Sara: Be ke boifa modim, Khos le dipoko.

CF: O be o tšhaba gore ba tlo go dira eng?

Sara: Ga ke tsebe, Massell, be ke no tšhaba.

CF: Le banna ba le fase la gago ba ya tšhaba?

Sara: Ee, Massell, ba tšhaba Khos le modim.

CF: Ke ka baka la eng ba tšhaba Modim? Ba nagana o tla ba dira eng?

Sara: Ga ke tsebe, Massell; Eupša Khos o tla ba bolaya. E sego ka bo yena eupša ba bereke ba ga ge.

CF: Khos o ile a ba Khos neng?

Sara: Ka gore tatagwe o be ile Khos pile ga gage (Ka mantso amangwane, ka go belegwa).

CF: Khos o dira eng?

Sara: O dira gore pula e ne.

CF: Sara o sa nagana gore Khos o na le matla a go nešetša pula goba go hlabišetša letšatši?

Sara: Aa, Massell! Aowa – Morena yo Matla ka Moka, mmopi wa legodimo le lefase, yo refile dilo ka moka gore re di thabela.

CF: Mpotše, Morena o ile a go fa tšedife tšedibotse?

Sara: Ke dumela go Morena yo Matla ka Moka (Sara o boeletša molao wa matoma ka go felela)

CF: Ke’ng tše kaone kudu tše Morena o ile a re fa tšona, rena ba diradibe?

Sara: Morena o re fele Morwa wa gagwe. Morena o ratile lefase gakaakaa. (Sara a boeletša mantšu a beibele, ka go felela) (Johane 3:16 ke tlhokomedišo ya morulaganyi)

CF: Ke’ng seo se dirago gore moheitene e be moheitene gomme gore mokriste e be mokriste?

Sara: Moheitene ga tsebe Morena Jesu, ga rati Morena Jesu. Mokriste o tseba Morena Jesu gomme o rata Morena Jesu. Moheitene o tšhaba modim.

CF: Ke ka baka la eng moheitene a tšhaba modim?

Sara: Modim o na le moya omobe.

Morena wa mokriste o bjang?

Sara: Morena o botse kudu. (mahlo a Sara a phadima ka megokgo).

CF: Morena e be sa lokile le ge a go tšea ga geno, a gontšha ka gare ga batswadi ba gago le ga bana bageno?

Sara: Ee, Massell (Sara bjale o rothiša megokgo)

CF: Morena o be a lokile, ka nako yeo, ka baka la eng?

Sara: Morena o ntšhitše ka lefsifsing a nthuta ka Mphološi wa rena. (Sara a tswalela sifahlego ka matsogo. Sara le Massell ba dula sebaka ba homotši.)

CF: O nyaka go bolela ka gore be gole bjang nako ye Morena a go tšea nageng ya gago ya kgale?

Sara: (Sara a lebelela pele a homotše). Ke a nyaka, eupša e leša dihlong kudu.

CF: Ka baka la’ng Sara, omunyane?

Sara: Ga ke kgone.

CF: Sara, bolela se o se gopolago. Bagwera ba gago banyaka go tšeba gore be gole bjang.

Sara: Ee, Massell. Tataka o be ya etetše dinaga-magaeng le mosadi wa gage yo mongwe. Go ya gotšea letšatši le tee. Ke moka gwa fihla ma Dutch le batho ba bantsu batšwang nageng ye ngwe, e seng ba gaesho gomme gwa direga ntwa. Be ke nale mma ka ntlong e kgolo (ka motseng). (Sara o hlalosa gore ba bitša kraal ka leina le lengwe).

Batho ba bantši be ba le ka motseng, ba bantši kudu! Khos, dikgaetšedi tša ka ka moka. Goseng kudu, letšatše le so hlabe, ba thuntšha, bafiša motse ka moka, batho ba kitimela godimo, batšhaba, ba letšela godimo kudu. Khos a kitimela leganateng le sethokgeng, banna ba bantsu kamoka ba latela Khos. Re na basadi be re sa tia ka mo go lekenego go ka kitima le bona!

CF: Aa, Sara ngwanešo. Mathata le mahloko a mantši bjalo ka tše!

Sara: Ee, Massell! Ka hlokofala letšatši ka moka! (Sara o be a nalego boifa go hwa). Mma, sesi yaka yo mogolo a swara buti’aka omonyane ka matsogong, ba tšaba kudu gomme mo ( A beya seatla godimo ga pelo ya gage) go betha ka matla, letšatši kamoka be ke se ka ja le go nwa. Ka abula kafase ga legageng, go tomile gwa tsena ngwanenyana, ka moka gwa latela nna, buti’aka, mma le ba bangwe. Aa, Massell, be re thothomela kudu. Banna ba boela gomme re dutše re homotše eupša ngwanenyane yo mongwe a wiša se aparo kantle ga legageng, gomme ma-Dutch a lebelela ka gare ba thoma go thuntšha, ba ile ba thuntšha letsogo la ngwanenyana yo mongwe gomme kolo e ile ya tsena ka lehlakoreng la ka. (Tšedingwe dithata go di kwešiša ka gore Sara o bolela ka pela e bile wa lla) Banna ba baso ile ba tla ba goeletša ka gore: E tšwang! E tšwang! Ka moka ka tšwa le mma le banenyana ba bangwe le buti’aka omonyane. Gomme yena a tšwa ba mobetha ka thupa e golo go fihlela a e hwa. bo-mma ba lela fase, batho ba bangwe bathoma go bontša moya ye mebe kudu. Nna le banenyane ba bangwe re tlela pele gomma ba goeletša ka gore: “Sepelang! Sepelang!” gomma ra sepela eupša buti’aka omonyane ga robetše a hwile. (Bjale Sara a lla lebaka le letelele)

CF: Aa, Sara ngwanešo! Morena a go romela tsela ye sa tlwaelegago. Gomme ya ya kae tsela yeo?

Sara: Kgo Morena Jesu, Massell.

CF: Ka moka gel direnga’ng, Sara, omunyane?

Sara: Ee, Massell, re no dula, ba goeletša ka gore: “Sepelang! Sepelang!” Gomme ra namela ra fologa dithaba. Be ke na le bolwetši, madi a tšhologela fase se tseleng gomme ke sa gone le go sepela. Ke sepala pele le morago e bile ke kwa gotong ka mmeleng. Bomma le batho ba bangwe ba tšhaba e le bošego – nna be ke sa gone go sepela bose gomme ke septal ka go lwalwa ka moka motho yo moso ile a mpeya godimo ga karikana a nhlatswiša ka metsi a tonyago.

CF: O no swanetše o kwele bohloko kudu e kolo idutše kalehlakoreng la gago?

Sara: Ee, Massell. Be ke kwele bohloko kudu. Ge ke fihla nageng ya ma-Dutch ile ba berekeša mphaka go ntša kolo, ba ile batsenya panteši gomme ka fola.

CF: O dutše nako e kaakang nageng ya ma-Dutch?

Sara: Kgwedi ye tee.

CF: Be ba go swere gabotse?

Sara: (Sara a myemyela ganyane) Be ke na le go lea go tšhabela gae gomme banna ba baso ba bolela gomme ba bušetša gomme ba mbetha ga golo. Ai, ai! Be ba bofa matsoga a ka ka diketane gomme ba mbethe ka bohloko.

CF: Be ba go betha ka eng?

Sara: (A bona gala a maketše) Ka sjambok!

CF: Eupša ke eng yeo, Sara?

Sara: Ke sjambok, e bohloko kudu.

CF: Eupša ke’ng sjambok?

Sara: Ee, Massell, ke sjambo (dithupa), ba betha batho baso ka yona.

CF: Ka tsela ye feng?

Sara: Ba betha mo ba nyakang, hlogo, mokokotlo, matswele, ba bathe go se feleng!

CF: O bo o gwetša mašoba mo mmeleng?

Sara: Aowa, Massell, eupša matsogo a ruruga ga golo, le mokokotlo wa ka, le hlogo, le phatla, mmele ka moka (Sara o be a ruruga Mo be be ba mobetha).

CF: O be o goeletša na ko ye okwa bohloko?

Sara: Ga ke tsebe, Massell? Goeletša?

CF: Ee, o be o goeletša ga golo?

Sara: Ee, kudu! Be ke lla bošego ka moka, ke lela gagesho.

CF: Ne o bethwa kemang?

Sara: Ke banna.

CF: Be go nale batho ba lebeletše o bethwa?

Sara: ee, Massell, mosadi, bana. Mma wa mong wa lapa ke a re ‘go lekane.”

CF: Sara, ngawensho, be go felela?

Sara: ee, Massell. Be be ba mbofula, mong wa lapa ke a re ke se ka tšhaba gape. Nna ge kere: Aowa.

CF: Wa kgopola be go le bjang ka pelong ya gago ka nako e?

Sara: Ga ke kwešiše?

CF: O be o nyamile? O be o lla letšatši ka moka?

Sara: Ee, Massell. Be ke nyamile kudu, letšatši ka moka. Be ke sa gone go boyela gagesho. Nkampane ke hwe.

CF: Be go nale motho o ile a go bona o lla?

Sara: Bana fela. Bana be ba re, Sara wa lla! (a lla, a goeletša)

CF: O ile wa tloga ne’ng lefelong leo?

Sara: Be ba re: Sara o tloga Afrika o ya toropong . Re tsamaya Gosasa, mosadi, bana le mong wa lapa ba tsena bošego.

CF: O be o hlokometše bana goba o be o dira’ng?

Sara: Be ke hlokomela dinku.

CF: O be o dira’ng toropong?

Sara: Be ke ya borekišetšong; mong wa lapa o tomile a rekiša dikgong gomme (Sara a homola) a latela ka go nthekiša.

CF: Ke mang o go rekilego?

Sara: Lephodisa la monna, eupša ga ke tsebe gore ke mang. O ile a re: go tlogela lehone Sara o dula moke.

CF: Oh, Sara, tše bohloko so!

Sara: Ee Massell, ke be ke tšhogile kudu!

CF: O dutše nako e kaakang le lephodisa?

Sara: Beke ye tee.

CF: O be o dira’ng ka gagwe?

Sara: Ke be kile ka khitšining ke lebeletše dipitša le de poto

CF: O kopane le Mna F neng la mathomo? (Mna F yo dulago Potchefstroom – tlhokomedišo ya morulaganyi ile ya ngwala ‘Botchesfroom,’ ka phošo. Mna F ke rakgwebo le molemi o tšwang Sweden o ile a dira thulaganyo Afrika Borwa ya dikoloning tša go lema tše lego tša Sweden. Leina la gagwe ge le feleletše ke Forssman. Sara o ile a fihla Sweden le Mna F).

Sara: Mna F o ile a tla go le phodisa a nametše pere gomme Anna o monyane a re “Sara a ka swara pere.” Mna F a re, Sara ke sehwirihwiri, o ile a tšabela gagabo. Ka re aowa!

CF: Eupša o ile wa fihla neng go Mna F?

Sara: Anna o monyane a re ke o swanetše ke ye go Mna F le ka ntlong ya gagwe. E ke fihla e be bare ke ye moraleng. Ka moraleng mosadi wa Mna F o ebola ditapola gomme Mna F a re ke swanetše ke mo bitše Moh. gomme ka dumela.

CF: O be o hlokomela band ba le lapa la bona, o hlwekiša ntlo, o hlokometše dipitšha gomme le dilo tše swana le tše?

Sara: Ee, Massell.

CF: O dutše nako e kaakang le bona?

Sara: Moh. o itše nywaga e mene

CF: O be o thabile go sepela nako e telele gaaka?

Sara: La mathomong be ke thabile, eupša e ba re go tlo tšea nywaga e metaro, ka re go kaone ke shale mo Afrika.

CF: O sa gopola leeto la go fihla Sweden?

CF: Leeto? Ee.

Sara: Ke gopola re tshela lehanata, be ke dira molo bošego gore ditau di se ke di batamele kgaufsi. Sara Dina (Le yena o ile a tla Sweden fomme a boela Afrika Borwa a fetša go kolobetšwa) le banna ba baso ba be ba robetše fase ga karikaneng. Moh le Mna F le bana ba be ba robetše ka gare ga karikaneng yeo.

CF: Be le na le dijo tša tsele kamoka tše lekanego (go tloga Potchefsrom, toropo ye golo ya Transvaal)?

Sara: Aowa, Massell, be re ema re reka dijo tseleng.

CF: Ke eng Leine la toropo ye o ile wa namela sekepe?

Sara: Lissebeth, Massell. (Port Elisabeth). Ke hlakane le banna ba baso bagesho moo. Ke a ba tseba, ba rutegile, sekolong ba be ba ruta ka segoa.

CF: O dutše nako e kaakang Port Elisabeth?

Sara: Kgwedi e tee. Barwa ba Mna F ba be ba tsena sekolo.

CF: O hlakane ka e le banna ba baso bageno?

Sara: E be ke hlatswa di aparo. Ba be ba mpotšiša gore ke a kae le gore ke gona go bala? Ka re aowa ga ke gone. Ba araba ka gore ke tao fišwa diheleng ka baka la se.

CF: O nagana gore e be ice bakriste?

Sara: Ga ke tseba, Massell, ge e ba kolobeditšego. Eupša ba bala, e bile ba bolela ka diheleng, ka go fišwa ga batho. Baheitene a ba tseba diheleng. Ke ile ka babotšiša gore batho ba baso, baheitene, ba ya kae ye ba hlokofala gomme ba araba ba re ba ya diheleng. Ba be ke bolela le bona ke bagesho, ke ba tsebela gae.

CF: O be o bolela bona ga golo?

Sara: ka dinako tše dingwe ge ke reka borotho. Ka dula le bona. Moh F a re ke ka dula lebone goba ke ka boela Afrika, gagesho. A re ba bantši ba hlokomedi ba legae ka Kalmar. Ke dira se ke nyakago, ke be ke nyaka go tsamaya le bone.

CF: Ka moka wa toma lento le letelele! O be o na le bolwetši nako e o be o le lewatleng?

Sara: Ee, Massell, bolwetši kudu.

CF: O be o nagana gore o ka hwa?

Sara: Be ke sa nagane selo … Ke dula ke sa nagane selo, moya waka le go hwa.

CF: Mara Sara, nako ye o na le bolwetši bo bontši, be go se na selo se o be o se bitša?

Sara: Ee, Massell. Ke ile ka gopela thušo ya Modim.

CF: Ge o be o nagana gore Modim o be ka gona go gothuša e bile o be a nyaka?

Sara: Ga ke tsebe Massell. Ga ke sa tseba selo ka Modim bjale.

CF: Sara, o na le go bitša Modim bjale e go na le selo o se tšhabago?

Sara: Aowa, Massell! Ke bitša Morena, Mophološi.

CF: Modim le Morena Mophološi wa rena ba fapana kae?

Sara: Mphološi ke Morena o philago, Modim ke memo ya diswantšho.